Kasumi Arimura
Born February 13th, 1993 in Hyogo prefecture. She made her TV drama debut in 2010 in She’s a Steely Woman! (Asahi TV), and gained widespread attention for her role in NHK’s TV series Amachan shortly thereafter, in 2013. In 2015, Arimura was cast as the lead in Biri Gal, and won the Japan Academy Award for best lead actress/best new actor, and for best lead actress in 2021 for her role in Hanataba Mitaina Koi Wo Shita. In 2022, she appeared in the TBS TV drama Ishiko and Haneo and the film Tsuki No Michi Kake. In 2023, she appeared in NHK period drama Dousuru Ieyasu and the film Call Me Chihiro. Other appearances include Natarrage (2017), Soshite, Ikiru (2019), Rurou Ni Kennshin the Final/the Beginnings (2021), Zenkamono (2022), and others.
https://www.flamme.co.jp/actress/profile.php?talentid=11
Instagram：@kasumi_arimura.official
Twitter：@Kasumistaff

There exists values that are born from the time and cherished by people throughout the ages. In this series,時音, we look back at the works of people who have promoted such values and speak with them about what they anticipate in the future.

In this installment, we interviewed actor Kasumi Arimura, star of the film Call Me Chihiro. The film is a live-action adaptation of Hiroyuki Yasuda’s manga of Chihiro-san, and is directed by Rikiya Imaizumi. The film follows former sex worker Chihiro who works at a lunch box shop in a small seaside town, and the various interactions she has with the people she meets there.

Arimura captivated audiences with her performances in the films Hanataba Mitaina Koi Wo Shita, the TV drama Ishiko and Haneo, and Call Me Chihiro. We interviewed her about where she’s at currently, at the age of 30.

A comfortable distance

– Call Me Chihiro was wonderful. I also love Ishiko (TV drama Ishiko To Haneo).

Kasumi Arimura: Thank you (laughs).

– I feel that the characters you’ve played in recent years, including Kinu (from Hanataba Mitaina Koi Wo Shita), have truly been captivating. What do you keep in mind when you play these roles?

Arimura: In my case, I find that I need to create a good foundation for my characters within myself, or else things become too vague. To do that, I look for the core of all the characters I play. For Chihiro, I built up her past based on clues written in the original manga. I assumed maybe Chihiro got tired of being too giving in the past, whether it was in her relationships with men or in her relationships at the company she worked for. Or that maybe she doesn’t know how to give love because she didn’t receive it from her mother. And perhaps that’s why Chihiro wants to give love to so many people, and why she ultimately ends up burning out. Those past experiences may have been what led her to keep her distance. I can’t verbally explain the nuances, but I put the pieces together to create the role within myself.

– What did you try to remain conscious of when expressing the Chihiro that you created using your own body?

Arimura: Chihiro looks good with short, blunt bangs and long black hair. Just from her appearance, you can sense a beautiful and charming person. She speaks gracefully, and possesses an unforgettable charm that comes across even after one conversation with her. It was difficult to create Chihiro’s distinct character since she’s at a different place than where I am usually, and has lived a different life than I have. So what I could do was try to lower my voice, not speak too fast, and try not to deviate too much from a certain level of emotion and passion felt from the tone of my voice.

– Did you work with Director Imaizumi to adjust how to depict the more delicate details of womanhood, such as Chihiro’s past as a sex worker or her relationship with Taniguichi (Ryuya Wakaba)?

Arimura: Director Imaizumi repeatedly asked me to “be a little more cheerful” on set. But he also mentioned that Chihiro is hard to depict because she couldn’t be too bubbly or too reserved. Mr. Imaizumi was probably also wondering if things were right while shooting, which I didn’t know the answer to, either. We basically finished shooting by worrying about it together.

– Can you tell us a scene that moved you while you were playing Chihiro?

Arimura: I think for Chihiro, her relationship with (the wife of the manager of the lunch box shop she works at) Tae (Jun Fubuki) is special. It felt as if Chihiro (her alias) could be her real self, Aya (her real name) in front of Tayo.

– Chihiro tends to keep her distance from people because of her past experiences and to maintain her emotional stability.

Arimura: I felt like I could understand why she kept her distance from people. When I think about it, I’m also not the type to overstep, and I keep a reasonable distance with even my friends. This keeps my emotions from fluctuating as much in my personal life, which is more comforting to me. Since I’m so stimulated in my work life, I want to be able to live an unstimulating, calm personal life as much as possible (laughs). I think about how the other person may want me to keep my distance, too.

For instance, if someone asks me to listen to a problem they’ve been having, it may be better for them if I keep a reasonable distance so I don’t accommodate so much or get sucked into their emotions. When I think about things like that, I feel like the way Chihiro keeps her distance is perfect for my current self.

– Do you think you, like Chihiro, learned to maintain distance because of your past experiences with different people?

Arimura: I met a lot of people in my twenties because of my line of work. It becomes difficult to maintain good relationships with so many people if I don’t keep a reasonable distance. If you’re part of an institution that allows you to work with the same people all the time, it’s best to build good relationships during a long period of time. But the projects I’m a part of take three months, or even as short as one month to finish. Of course I treat everyone the same when I first meet them, and I work hard for the months we’re shooting. But if I don’t let the people go after I say goodbye when production ends, I wouldn’t be able to maintain myself. There’s a part of me that can’t move on if I don’t do that.

– You mentioned that you find a lot of stimulation from your job. Can you elaborate?

Arimura: I meet and part with so many people throughout the short span of a year, I work with countless people for a single project, and I have to manipulate my emotions to act, whether that’s to cry, laugh, depict anger, suffering, or happiness. Everything I can’t get from my personal life is all stimulating.

– You don’t get used to that stimulation?

Arimura: No, you don’t. That’s why living a quiet and calm life at home enables me to be more myself. The more I lay low, the more I can ride the waves of emotion when I’m acting (laughs). I believe that’s my style, too.

Solitude does not equal loneliness

– Chihiro has some profound dialogue that makes us question how many lives she’s lived. Are there any lines that struck you in particular?

Arimura: “A meal eaten together is delicious, but a meal eaten alone is still delicious” is the line that struck me most. There’s a negative impression that people who are alone are lonely, but that’s not true. There are many people in the world who love solitude. If someone feels that it’s easier for them to be alone, that’s what makes them happy. This line felt accepting of the act of being alone.

For instance, finding a place where a schoolgirl can eat lunch alone may be very difficult for her, but it may also be her place of salvation. They are free to love that space, and I think many people may be relieved of these anxieties if there were people like Chihiro saying that spending time alone is perfectly fine. I think there’s a lot of dialogue in the manga and the movie that can help people.

I personally think there’s nothing wrong with solitude because I don’t think humans can understand each other 100%. There are always things others don’t know about you, whether it’s someone you like, friends, or family. That objectiveness can be fun; you can imagine what they’re thinking about, and really consider the other person. We learn so much when we confront each other, and I think solitude is at the root of this process.

You’re alone when you fight, too. For example, you’re alone when you’re fighting through a workload that was thrust upon you. I’m sure the fight with solitude is common in any profession, and the responsibility gets heavier the higher up you are. Like the student who has the best GPA in the class must be in solitude to maintain that position. Athletes are the same. There are cons to being in this position, but there are also a lot one can learn from being alone. That’s why I don’t believe solitude equals loneliness at all.

– Are you conscious of when you’re fighting, too?

Arimura: It’s more like I’m fighting against myself, not with others.

– Unlike academics and sports, there is no numerical ranking for actors. What are some of the things you use as a guide when fighting against yourself?

Arimura: Castmates are like comrades at war in any project. I don’t feel any competitiveness, even with actors who aren’t on the same project, because we’re all comrades. I may envy another actor because there are so many unique and charming people in the field, but I try not to pay attention to it. I have to fight to get through this role or that day of shooting. It’s a fight to overcome what’s in front of you everyday (laughs).

“I’d like to work towards a better quality workplace”

– Do you have any favorite scenes after watching the finished film?

Arimura: I basically like all the scenes that Okaji (Hana Toyoshima) and Makoto (Tetta Shimada) are in (laughs). Like the scene in Makoto’s house where Okaji cries eating the yakisoba made by Makoto’s mother (Yui Sakuma), or Chihiro’s POV shot of Okaji and Makoto when they go to Chihiro’s house bearing get-well gifts, each of their scenes are so precious. I think they played incredibly important roles in this film.

Makoto was very free, but could say all his lines when rolling regardless. That’s what amazed director Imaizumi, who would say, “that’s why he’s impressive” (laughs). I heard that Makoto couldn’t cry during his audition when he was asked to. But when he was leaving the room, he offhandedly said, “I guess the part of me that can’t cry came out today”, which left a strong impression on the director (laughs). He was a very interesting child.

– I think Okaji’s perspective of the future changed for the better by meeting Chihiro during her high school years. Have you met anyone who has had that sort of impact on you?

Arimura: If you’re asking about encounters I’ve had since I started working this job, I was impacted by a senior at my agency. I trailed behind them because I assumed that I could be like that person if I worked just as hard as them. I read interview articles to digest this person’s thought processes, because I wanted to know what they were thinking. I feel like I gained a wider perspective by doing that.

– You were cast in so many projects in your twenties. How are you feeling, after turning thirty on February 13th? I’m wondering what age means to you.

Arimura: I’m shocked to already be thirty (laughs). Thankfully, my situation and background changed very rapidly in the last decade. These ten years have almost been too rich of an experience, and felt like it was gone in an instant. In terms of age, I don’t put much emphasis on it. I often think about what I can do in the present to age gracefully.

– The fact that Call Me Chihiro will be available on Netflix on the day of its theatrical release will also be a new experience. What would you like to work on in the future?

Arimura: Work is more fun when you’re able to have discussions with others. There have been increasingly more situations in which people will do exactly what I say.Instead, I’d like to create a work environment where we can share thoughts and ideas with each other. I’d like to work towards a better quality workplace in my thirties.

■Call Me Chihiro
International streaming on Netflix & Japanese theatrical release on February 23rd
Cast: Kasumi Arimura, Hana Toyoshima, Tetta Shimada, van, Tatsuya Wakaba, Yui Sakuma, Lily Frankie, Jun Fubuki, and others.
Based on: Chihiro-san by Hiroyuki Yasuda (Akita Shoten “Akita Ladies/Comics/Deluxe” edition)
Director: Rikiya Imaizumi
Screenplay: Kaori Sawai, Rikiya Imaizumi
Producer: Netflix, Asmik Ace
Production company: Asmik Ace, Digital Frontier
Distribution: Asmik Ace
https://chihiro-san.asmik-ace.co.jp

Translation Mimiko Goldstein
Photography Mikako Kozai（L management）
Styling Yumiko Segawa
Hair & Make-up Izumi Omagari

The post 時音 Vol. 20: Interview with Actor Kasumi Arimura on How to Approach a Role appeared first on TOKION - Cutting edge culture and fashion information.

Creating ordinary, commonplace love stories 

–You’ve directed many romantic films over the years. Do you go into the filmmaking process thinking, “I want to explore this facet of love”?

Rikiya Imaizumi: I only think about how it’s pointless to make the same film every time. With Over the Town, shooting in Shimokitazawa was a must; I wanted to contrast the ever-changing city against unchanging feelings. The following is what I wanted to shoot: the protagonist gets cheated on and dumped by his lover. He then meets different women in Shimokitazawa before getting over her. Instead of hunting down the person his ex had an affair with, he takes each day as it comes, unable to shake off his feelings for her.

–The film highlights the inherent comedy that love has.

Imaizumi: Humor has always been there in my screenwriting. I feel like I’ve heightened the romance and humor in this film. Before we cast Ryuya Wakaba as Ao, the protagonist, I was considering getting rid of most of the dialogue, like the taciturn protagonists in Aki Kaurismäki’s films. I wanted to make an off-beat comedy about a passive, incompetent protagonist who’s terrible at love and surrounded by oddballs. That’s why I added more funny scenes which emphasized the bewildered, awkward feeling the protagonist felt when he came across odd couples or the police. Until this film, I used to get rid of scenes that were too on the nose or scenes that were like comedy sketches, even if I had written them in my screenplay. This time around, Hiroyuki Ōhashi-san co-write the script, and he discerned which parts were good. I kept the scenes that made him go, “This part is funny. It’s good.”

–Is there anything you keep in mind whenever you make romantic films?

Imaizumi: I think it’s alright for other films to be like this, but I don’t want to make unrealistic romantic films about a conventionally beautiful couple. Instead, I want to create ordinary romantic films that could make the viewer feel like the story could happen to them. When I write dialogues, I try to use words we use in daily conversations, like the one we’re having right now, not words we don’t use every day. It has a better effect than contrived speech patterns.

–There are many people with ambiguous relationships in Over the Town. It makes you think, “Are they together? Or are they just attracted to each other? Are they friends or acquaintances?”

Imaizumi: From before, I was interested in the idea of people who aren’t couples, only talking about their former partners. I wanted to try my hand at illustrating ambiguous relationships or acts like, “Is there a romantic connection there or not?”

–You’re talking about the scene where the characters stay up all night and chat in Iha Jojo’s (Seina Nakata) room. The characters don’t seem romantically interested in one another, but they still enjoy the time because anything is possible, objectively speaking.

Imaizumi: Machiko Takahashi, played by Minori Hagiwara, is a filmmaking student, and she asks Ao to be in her film. His friends tell him she likes him, and Ao believes them. It’s not like he doesn’t have ulterior motives towards women, but he can’t seem to develop relationships with them. I had the concept of different women passing the baton to one another in my mind when I was writing the script. The underlying issue is he’s still hung up on his ex.

–The film opens with Ao’s then-partner dumping him. The conversation they have in his room had your signature as a filmmaker.

Imaizumi: When Ao can’t accept their breakup, Yuki Kawase(Moeka Hoshi) tells him, “You can keep telling people we’re still together. I’ll act like we’ve broken up, though.” When I was writing that line, I thought, “What in the world is she saying?” (laughs). I was pleased when I wrote it. But it’s quite a heavy breakup scene, so the audience’s reactions in screenings and private viewings have been different so far. People finally started laughing at this scene where a strange couple interacts at the vintage store Ao works at.

An unchanging protagonist in the ever-changing city of Shimokitazawa

–What kind of place is Shimokitazawa for you?

Imaizumi: I’m from Fukushima prefecture, and I went to university in Nagoya. After that, I lived in Osaka and whatnot, so Shimokitazawa was a place I dreamed of before I came to Tokyo. I had also wanted to go to Tollywood, which is a movie theater there. When I lived in Sasazuka, I would watch live shows here and there, but I never found my favorite hang-out spot. I currently live far away from the city, but I’m more immersed in Shimokitazawa now that I stay over at friends’ places whenever I have to work there. I can finally say I have a deep relationship with Shimokitazawa after I began frequenting bars like Suiren and izakayas like Nishinba, which are in the film.

–How do you feel about the redevelopment plans there?

Imaizumi: I don’t think the city was better in the past. But as someone who’s known the place for a long time, I can’t help but feel like the renovated south exit is ugly. Perhaps young people who hang out in Shimokitazawa in the present will feel nostalgic for how it looks today once it looks different in the future. The characters talk about this in the film, but I think it’s okay for everyone to have a different era they feel nostalgic for. It’s also nice how the varying stages of Shimokitazawa are depicted in manga comics, books, films, and other mediums. In this sense, Over the Town has a bit of a meta-structure. There are numerous excellent works on Shimokitazawa, such as Zawa-zawa Shimo-Kitazawa and Kiriko Nananan’s manga comics, which are mentioned in the film, so I felt the pressure to make something good.

–It’s a cultural mecca.

Imaizumi: I was intimidated to shoot there. I usually make films where characters talk to one another in their rooms, so when I got asked to film in Shimokitazawa, I felt anxious and conflicted like, “What? I’ve never really filmed a city before.” Instead of covering all the locations, I decided to shoot spots I knew; that’s how I organized it in my mind. The music in the film is influenced by Shimokitazawa. We filmed the part where Ao goes to a show at Three, which I’ve been to many times. Mahito-san (Mahi To The People of Gezan), who I love, performs in that scene. As a result, I made a film I like, and I felt relieved after reading some people comparing Over the Town to Zawa-zawa Shimo-Kitazawa.

–I feel like Ao doesn’t belong anywhere and isn’t good at socializing, as can be seen in his love life and how he acts when he accepts the offer to be in a student film. [He may be a wallflower], but Ao’s existence is for sure. He reminds me of myself in Shimokitazawa. Since my student days, I would sometimes go to vintage stores or watch live shows, but I couldn’t find my go-to spot. And I stopped going there, eventually. I’m a nameless face in a crowd and an outsider; Shimokitazawa will do just fine without me. In the film, I felt the weight of people who exist but don’t contribute to a city or town. I watched it as someone who didn’t play a role in Shimokitazawa, but I didn’t feel alienated from the film.

Imaizumi: I understand how you feel because I don’t belong anywhere either. My film, Just Only Love isn’t about the main character growing up. It’s about a protagonist somehow ending up where he ends up with nothing going his way. When people who can’t adapt to a place or don’t have a great love life come across stories where the protagonist doesn’t grow up, they feel seen and heard. The viewer can become the protagonist. This was my intention since I started making films. I deliberately made Ao into a character that usually wouldn’t get attention, someone who doesn’t stand out. He doesn’t want to become an actor or a musician or anything — he works at a vintage clothing store and reads books. Typically, he would be the type of character that’s around the main character, not the main character themselves. I plan on creating more films with such protagonists.

Having a connection with the actors and actresses

–The four women that interact with Ao are all unique, likable, and are shot nicely. How do you choose your actresses?

Imaizumi: I go along with what I like (laughs). This applies to actors too, but it’s especially true with actresses. I don’t think I could make an actress I don’t like, even if they’re incredibly famous, look appealing. I think a different director should shoot said actress in a better light. It’s not like I can capture everyone in a charismatic way.

–Do you have a framework on how to shoot them nicely?

Imaizumi: To not over-produce them. If I chose someone with magnetism, then it’s better for them to act however they want to. That’ll allow them to be naturally charismatic. I first give them creative control to perform how they want to. This goes to the actors as well, but if someone stands out in my films, that’s because I try to take in the actor’s thoughts or what they want to do.

–So, you like actresses and actors who have independence, not those who trace every word on the script?

Imaizumi: Yes. I mean, I don’t say much when I direct (laughs). But actors who are like, “Me! Me!” rubs me the wrong way the most (laughs). What’s important isn’t to push yourself to the forefront. The important thing is to bring ideas about your performance in the film. Onset, we go over each scene, decide on the camera blocking with the cinematographer, have a test shoot, and shoot the scenes. When we’re going over the scenes, I usually don’t say anything. It’s like, “Let’s give it a shot” and “Action!” For example, if we’re doing a scene with two people, I want them to decide where to sit and so on. Good actors are proactive. They say things like “Can I stand here?” or “Okay, I’ll sit then.” If their ideas match mine, then I go along with it. But it’s more satisfying if their ideas are even better than mine. I don’t want to prevent a fun idea from being born by giving directions first.

–And the cinematographer could handle your way of doing things.

Imaizumi: Yes. Iwanaga-san filmed most of my films, and he filmed Over the Town too. His camera isn’t too close to the actors. I wouldn’t go as far as to say it’s like a bird’s eye view, but I can watch one shot that he’s taken comfortably. I know nothing about camera lenses and whatnot, but I think his sensibilities match mine.

–Starting with Wakaba-san, you’re beginning to work with the same actors more.

Imaizumi: It makes me feel secure. I’d rather work with the same people than not know how things will go with people I don’t know. I might be influenced by directors I love, such as John Cassavetes, who used the same actors a lot.

What is love?

–Lastly, do you think romance is beautiful or otherwise?

Imaizumi: I’ve never really thought it was beautiful. It’s extremely hard. I was never a ladies’ man, and my relationships never went well. Aside from my wife, I’ve never been with anyone for a year. I barely have any fun memories with past girlfriends (laughs). I feel more emotionally stable when I’m alone, but I would feel lonely, want a girlfriend, and experience unrequited love. But once I got a girlfriend, I would become emotionally unstable and break up with that person because I wanted to be alone again; it was a cycle. It would’ve been great if I felt passionate about someone, but once I started dating them, I would look at the situation dispassionately like, “This is interesting.” I know I was awful. One more horrible thing is I’ve never been dumped. I’ve dumped every single person I’ve been with. Romance is painful, but it’s not like I hate it. I want to make films about it because I hold moments of romance close to my heart.

Rikiya Imaizumi
born in 1981 in Fukushima prefecture. He made his full-length feature film debut in 2010 with Tamano Eiga. He was awarded Best Director for the film I Catch a Terrible Cat at the Transylvania International Film Festival in 2013. Sad Day was released the following year, which received acclaim. He’s also directed Our Blue Moment (2018), Just Only Love (2019), Little Nights, Little Love (2019), mellow (2020), his (2020), and In Those Days (2021).

Photography Kazuhei Kimura
Translation Lena Grace Suda

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The post An ordinary love, an ever-changing city, and a protagonist who doesn’t grow up; Rikiya Imaizumi’s Over the Town appeared first on TOKION - Cutting edge culture and fashion information.

Even if the audience doesn’t understand the debate, they can see the passion and respect

——So, I heard that at the time you got the offer for “Mishima: The Last Debate,” you didn’t know much about Yukio Mishima.

Keisuke Toyoshima: I didn’t know anything about him. A film critic, Shigehiko Hasumi, had made fun of Yukio Mishima, so I’d never read his work. I was a Hasumi devotee in my college days. (laughs)

——Why did you accept a job on a topic you “didn’t know anything about?”

Toyoshima: The producer, Tone, is a classmate from college. We were born the year after Mishima committed suicide, so we’re from a generation that has never experienced Mishima or the passion behind the “seiji no kisetsu”
[season of politics]. Tone thought that he wanted to learn more about the topic with a director of the same generation, so he reached out to me. Apparently, he thought that since I’d studied for exams and got into the University of Tokyo, something could take shape as long as he made me study. (laughs) But turning Yukio Mishima’s biography into a film is too big of a challenge to tackle. So for this documentary, we dug up a May 13th, 1969 debate from the TBS archives between Yukio Mishima and a group of students from the University of Tokyo that was a little under 90 minutes long. I thought that if we could bring that to light, we might stand a chance.

——How did you decide on a conclusion (theme)?

Toyoshima: I had a tentative structure in mind, but I thought the challenge would be to see what I could get from the interviews with 13 people connected to Yukio Mishima. What was interesting to me about the interviews was that the people who had met Yukio Mishima were, at the end of the day, extremely fascinated by him and are still obsessed with him. I realized partway through making the film that we were shooting a documentary about those people. The people who were taken with Yukio Mishima are also subjects of this film. As for the conclusion, I kept asking myself, “Is there a point in releasing this film in 2020?” If you examine the content of the debate closely, the theme should be, “What kind of relationship should we have with the emperor?” But this is ideologically quite difficult, so the film doesn’t reach a conclusion. Instead, it compromises with “Debate, discussion, passion, and respect.” Although I know it’s a bit of a cop-out.

——Even though I couldn’t fully understand the content of the debates, I was definitely excited to see Mishima and the students being respectful to each other while verbally sparring.

Toyoshima: I wanted to make a movie like “Outrage” or “New Battles Without Honor and Humanity,” where the audience walks out of the movie theater with a swagger. A work that for some reason, inspires you to feel like, “I have to take action today!” We felt a sense of distance from our subjects, and we weren’t using this debate to deliver our own message, so we settled for a fluffy conclusion. I think that’s why so many people watched this film.

On inside jokes with the audience and how to tackle a new topic

Toyoshima: A lot of people who make films and dramas deal with new topics for every film. But with Mishima, I felt like I was dealt a tough hand. Tokuo, you were writing and directing for your own theater group when you were suddenly invited to work on theater productions with idols, right? When was that?

Koji Tokuo: I was invited for the first time in 2010. The gig was screenwriting and direction for PLAYZONE, starring Tsubasa Imai. It was quite a shock. I’d had such a hard time getting people to come to my smaller productions, but at Aoyama Theater, which holds 1,200 people, all 40 performances were completely packed. I learned at that time that there are certain kinds of performances that fans in particular can appreciate.

Toyoshima: You mean the performances are geared towards fans?

Tokuo: For example, if I thought of a funny scene, 500 people would laugh, but if one of the performers did an impression of someone senior to them at their agency, 1200 people would burst into laughter. Even if the former is something that’d be funny even to non-fans, the latter makes more people happy in a theater production that’s geared towards fans, so I realized that I had to properly think about that kind of direction as well.

Toyoshima: That’s interesting! What you said is very on point. AKB48’s “Majisuka Gakuen” had a unique culture of giving fans what they wanted, too. I joined partway through the show, but other than Atsuko Maeda, the rest of the girls played characters that were nicknames given to them by Yasushi Akimoto. For example, Minami Minegishi’s character’s name, “Shaku,” originates from the fact that Minegishi herself wanted “shaku” [screen time] at variety shows.

Tokuo: Right, so they included some inside jokes for members and fans to share.

——When you take on a subject you aren’t familiar with, what kind of research do you do?

Tokuo: It’s difficult to take on a full-fledged historical drama or mystery. But even when that’s not the case, there are a lot of times I deal with areas I’m unfamiliar with, so I always do my research when that happens. It’s fun to become a bridge into a world that the viewer doesn’t know, either.

Toyoshima: The historical drama that comes to mind is “A Courtesan with Flowered Skin.” I’m not a fan of historical dramas, so this was about as unfamiliar to me as Mishima. But I was excited to have the rare experience of shooting a historical drama in Uzumasa [region in Kyoto]. I actually get the most fired up when I get to do something I’m not knowledgeable in. That was one of the reasons I took on Mishima. It was definitely going to be a painful experience, but I can’t resist the excitement of opening new doors.

Tokuo: I think I have an inquisitive mind that can turn the things I research into knowledge. I can sit at my desk for hours without getting tired, and I enjoy interviewing people. For “My Housekeeper Nagisa-san,” I interviewed a pharmaceutical company and a housekeeping service. When I was young, I didn’t have many opportunities to interview people, but I’m doing more and more interviews every year. I think it’s probably because there’s been an increase in complicated jobs that you can’t write about unless you conduct interviews. I have a background in mathematics, and back when I didn’t have work, I was invited to help think of ideas for an NHK drama called “Hard Nuts,” in which a college student played by Ai Hashimoto uses math to solve difficult cases. I came up with math tricks partially on my own and then went to the supervising university professor to ask questions on what to do.

Toyoshima: When you wrote Ossan’s love, did you do interviews or research on LGBT and BL [abbreviation for “Boy’s Love,” a genre of media featuring homoerotic relationships between male characters] topics?

Tokuo: No, from the very beginning with that show, I wanted to create a drama where an “ossan” [middle-aged man] was dedicated to the kind of standard love stories you see depicted in trendy primetime dramas and shojo mangas.

——When writing a romantic drama between two middle aged-men, what were you careful of?

Tokuo: This applies to every drama, but I wanted to avoid any depictions that would be hurtful to viewers. I tried to write about the universal troubles of love while making sure to drive home the point that the funny part isn’t that two middle-aged men are in love, but the bittersweetness of making mistakes in love.

On “sympathy” and “surprise at the unknown” in entertainment

——Shows like “Ossan’s Love” and “My Housekeeper Nagisa-san” cover topics that aren’t often seen in television dramas, but I’d like to link this to current trends. Are you two trying to create sympathy? Or is it the surprise at the unknown?

Tokuo: I often see people saying that they can’t sympathize with the protagonist, but sympathy is a funny word. There’s a lot of interesting work out there that you can’t sympathize with at all. Or even if the main character is a villain, there’s a way to enjoy something by looking at it like a circus act and keeping a relativist view. There isn’t always a need to put yourself in the shoes of the protagonist, but sympathy has become a standard of value.

Toyoshima: Sympathy is like a rationalization——that as long as you include that, it’s fine. But sympathy is phony, an almighty theory that everyone can agree on. But the shows that actually become hits aren’t shooting for that.

Tokuo: Keisuke and I aren’t producers, so we don’t think about whether something will be a hit or not. We don’t have the ability to figure out what we have to do to ensure a hit in the first place. Of course, while we’re in the process of making something, it crosses our minds that people might want to see something like this or that, but ultimately, we spend a lot of time thinking about what we want to make, and the work itself.

Toyoshima: Although in the end, I always want it to become a hit. (laughs)

——This is my last question. Why do you think “Mishima: The Last Debate” was so popular?

Toyoshima: It’s a bit of a mystery, isn’t it? For the younger generation, I think it was important that it didn’t end with a bang or any ideology. It’s also interesting that depending on the viewers’ generation, they can see the film differently. For some, it brings back painful memories of their youth, while others are interested in it as an unknown world.

So it’s both “sympathy” and “surprise at the unknown.”

Toyoshima: Also, it stirs up various feelings, like intellectual insecurity, or the feeling of, “I have to learn about this now.” There were a lot of people writing their impressions about the debate on social media by prefacing it with “I couldn’t understand half of it but…”

Tokuo: I wonder if the film satisfied their intellectual curiosity.

Toyoshima: “Mishima: The Last Debate” is the first film I’ve made that a lot of people watched. It’s a documentary where the source footage itself is powerful, so as someone who’s always made fiction, I feel a bit disappointed or mixed about it. But there’s nothing like the joy of having many people see your work.

Tokuo: That’s true. The worst is when you don’t get any reactions at all.

Toyoshima: But I had a more difficult time with “Mishima: The Last Debate” after we finished making it. Even though I knew it was coming. I create fiction with my own interpretation, so I can talk all about the work. But with this Mishima film, I only know what I learned while making the film, so I can’t really compete with his experts and fans. Every time there’s an event or a teach-in, I learn something. (laughs)

Keisuke Toyoshima
Keisuke Toyoshima was born in 1971 in Shizuoka prefecture. After graduating from the University of Tokyo Department of Humanities and Social Sciences with a major in Culture and Representation, he studied at the American Film Institute (AFI) in Los Angeles. After returning to Japan, he directed his debut film, “Tales of Terror from Tokyo and All Over Japan” (2003), and after working on films and dramas ranging from idols TV shows to comedies, he directed “Mishima: The Last Debate.” Other recent works include “Youkai Sharehouse” and “Kakenai!?”
https://twitter.com/toyoshima1113

Koji Tokuo
Koji Tokuo was born in 1979 in Shizuoka prefecture. A graduate of Keio University, he was a member of the university theater club. In addition to writing and directing theater productions for his theater group, Tokuo Gumi, he’s written for many films and TV dramas. Some recent shows he has written for include “Ossan’s Love” (TV Asahi), “Miss Jikocho” (NHK), and “My Housekeeper Nagisa-san” (TBS TV).
https://twitter.com/tokuo

Photography Ryu Maeda

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